Black Male Choices: Unemployed, HighSchool Dropout Or Incarcerated

natalie ramirez

Thursday, December 9, 2010 at 4:37 pm

I have been in the field as an advocate/activist for womens rights for twenty years.. While aggressively pursuing those rights I have often received praise for my efforts from my fellow sisters (many of which are rarely in the trenches with me) but whenever I have spoken to the responsibilities the chorus of amens diminish. Well having been here half a century I have grown tired of the blame game and our tendency to absolve ourselves of responsibility for the mess in our community. So I recently wrote to several black magazines.

Greetings,

We cannot continue to demonize black men as THE problem given that many of them did not have a choice as it relates to becoming a father. Sistas we have aborted and adopted our children away in the name of “my body my choice” but the reality is..It is more “my lifestyle my choice” The same reasons that women choose those options are the reasons that many men walk. Whats not to understand about that? The only difference is we as womencanmake a decision that effects TWO people lives andmany timesthose two people (child and man are at our mercy). We have a greater responsibility to our community to prevent UNWANTED children and UNWILLING fathers.Sure it is a risk, but as women our choices begin with respecting unborn children by not bringing them into the world under these circumstances. Im sure not one sista will make it to the end of my post as many unfortunately refuse to look at this from an angle consistent with the way society has evolved, choosing rather to keep the same mindset that has not worked for us.

A recent topic on a radio station on the East Coast adressed the statistic that 74% of black children are born out of wedlock. While there was diversity of opinion during the discussion, I was surprised that many, women in particular, shared the sentiments I expressed regarding this issue. However, it was refereshing that more African-Americans are beginning to explore the other side of an issue that many believe the state governments have begun to exploit to our community’s detriment. I am a family therapist that has had a number of experiences over the last ten years that have begun to impact my worldview and insight on the issue. What our lawmakers and family courts are doing right now is NOT working for black folks. 72%? Its time for solutions that are not financially driven or meant to destroy peoples lives. Our response to the issue is to destroy those men that forced those women into motherhood?(sarcasm) That is not helping our community or the problem. Abortion and the guarantees of thechild support system (as it relates to many unwed mothers) has contributed to this growing problem. With a generation of entitled young people becoming adults there will be a continued deteriration of family values, particularly in the black community-perhaps as the result of the earlier mentioned guarantees that appear to promote single motherhood. Unfortunately, I am sure that my opinion will be dismissed before anyone actually processes or even finishes the conversation but…

This was my weigh-in on the show that surprisingly was received morewarmly than I thoughtby an audience of 100,000: I think we need to start looking at this problem very different than we have. This significant increase suggest to me that the way that we have been looking at the issue is not working. 74%? There has to be a more diverse and honest discussion no matter how tough that discussion is. We have to deal with reality and stop using yesterdays solution to an embarrasingly growing issue today. There are a number of perspectives that have been dismissed almost as if to suggest that some of the popular notions assertd on the daily are legitimate. 74% children born out of wedlock and we manage to continue reducing the issue to a need for more accountability and punative measuresfor fathers/men. And this “accountability” has led to black men receiving criminal records and other penalties (not for killing dogs, or vehicular homicide or selling drugs but wait for it…child support?), mistakingly making a moral issue a criminal one? And somehow this is the best that we can come up with? I cant believe there isnt more outrage. Criminalizing black fathers is not solving the problem it is creating a greater distance between black men, women and children. Here was my contribution to the discussion:

First I would like to express my gratitude to you all for providing a forum to discuss the issues affecting the black community. My name is Terry and I am a familytherapist in northwest Indiana. I weighed in on your topic regarding the recently released statistic that 74% of black children are born out of wedlock. I struggled to effectively communicate my thoughts on your show because it is a topic I have become very passionate about. I have always advocated fiercely for womens issues, rallying and speaking to a womans right to choice. However, I have also in recent years begun to explore other angles of this debate, particularly as it relates to the impact on the forgotten black male. It comes as no surprise that women are outperforming men at the collegiate level and in their their professional endeavors as well. I believe that women have begun to change their life trajectory for the better as the results of aggressive pushes for equality.And society will be better for it! BUT what has happened and what no one is willing to truly accept responsibility for is our clear neglect of our young men and boys. While we have begun to redefine what it is to be a woman due largely to the evolution of a womens role in society we continue to define manhood in archaic ways that are inconsistent with the evolving male. We cannot keep reducing the discussion to merely an issue of responsible fatherhood and not one of poor decision making by men AND WOMEN in our community. We must more actively promote pregnancy prevention and contraception option to our girls, though abstinence is my personal preference.

Roe v Wade gave women the right to unilaterally make a decision to terminate pregnancy without the input of the expecting father, including men only in the decision as it related to financial obligation. Growing education and access to contraception changed the landscape for women, as choice extended beyond decision about abortion to having a variety of options being provided women to prevent unwanted pregnancy. So.. If a woman got pregnant and believed she was not financially or emotionally prepared for motherhood she could terminate pregnancy even if the father desired the child. Additionally, a woman could drop their children at safe havens (in many states) or put their child up for adoption and never have their lifes course altered. Millions of women (and not just poor uneducated young women) abort or give their children away every year as it is their right to do so. However in this conversation of rights versus responsibilities, when men walk away from thevery SAMEresponsibility that can change his lifes course he is referred to as a deadbeat.The same top three reasons that women abort are the same three reasons that elicit fear and anxiety in men and young boys.We preach accountability/responsibility (and should continue) to our young men but in our efforts to protect our young women we dont effectively communicate the idea that with rights like CHOICE comes great responsibilities. We counsel our pregnant young women about the options they have encouraging them that their options make it possible to continue in their educational or career aspirations. But when It comes to our young men whose college and career aspirations may be effected, they are simply encouraged to “man up”. This growing resentment of many black men towards black women is the result of the interesting dichotomy where there are the womans declarations of independence and autonomy while selectively embracing victimization for things like unwanted pregnancy. In 2010 with the pro-choice mantra being My choice my body it should be interpreted that if a woman CHOOSES not to take responsibility for contraception, CHOOSES to then take the risk of unprotected sex or condom failure she should not be allowed to use terms like man up when in essence it was an act of negligence or in some cases intent on her part as wellthat led to pregnancy. Except in the case of rape, if sex is consensual, why do we still say that he “got her pregnant”? This seems to imply that he forced her to take off her clothes, forced her into the act, forced her not to be on birth control etc.

If there were no guarantees ofchild support and custody, I suspect that less women would be willing to engage in such risky reckless behavior. However this dependencyupon the two continue to destroy our community.When it comes to abortion we consider it merely a fetus, but with the womans decision to go full term with pregnancy and the fathers early communication of no desire to be a part of the process, all of a sudden we are offended that a man would walk away from his unborn CHILD. So for your convenience its not technically KILLING a child but if he walks it is an unforgiveable sin? WE HAVE TO HONESTLY DISCUSS THE HYPROCRISY OF THESE BELIEFS IN OUR COMMUNITY! So what do we do? We criminalize mens desire to not become fathers. This may be an immoral issue but not a crime! So a woman is already not receiving the support she desires but now we have given the black man a felony, he may lose his drivers license and may even lose his professional license to practice his profession (e.g. barbers license) How is this helping the black community? And we hear about it so much that we have allowed ourselves to be indoctrinated with the belief that this practice is not harmful! We cannot continue to reduce such a complex discussion to this problem as merely being a need for black men to start mannin up as many of our leaders seem to buy into. On a side note we cannot allow self-proclaimed “experts” (Black entertainers) to write books and lead the discussion about manhood and relationships and take their word and experiences as law. Sorry about that one.
The prevalence of depression and rate of male suicide has increased at an alarming rate and NO ONE is talking about it. I lost three gentleman on my caseload to suicide after they found themselves marginialized from their childrens lives because mommy desired a sperm donor and a financial sponsor but not a father for her children. We have child support enforcement agencies but we dont have visitation enforcement agencies. So once again we put a lot of emphasis on fatherhood as a financial obligation but not on the active involvement of men in their childrens lives. If the government wont enforce one then they shouldn?t enforce the other.

These three gentlemens stories never get told because EVERYONE is so focused on paying back many men for the sins of their fathers. Not all mens stories are the same just like not all stories of single motherhood are to be automatically held as the result of an ill intended man taking advantage of a woman. One of my clients was falsely accused of DV and sentenced to time in jail until his exes own family recorded her admission that shed fabricated the stories. She should automatically have transferred her custodial rights and been charged herself but this didnt happen. His reputation was damaged badly but he continued to fight a losing fight for custody until he ultimately took his life. Another story from a colleague in the field: the clients children greeted him with open arms upon his release from jail. He was a professional man and hed been accused by hischildrens mother of abusing their children. After ten years and his children now 17 and 18 his children spoke of their mother coaching them through the allegations towards their father. It was later discovered that their stepfather had perpetrated the abuses towards the children upon my clients release. Having lost so much he too chose to end his life after a long bout with depression. My last clients suicide came on the heels of him finding out that hed fathered a child by a woman that admits to having poked holes in his condom to a judge. The judges response was, “while this is unfortunate, in the best interest of the child u must pay 8000 in arrears and 800 dollars a month in child support. Where is the justice in that? His story was never told. And yet Ive had several female colleagues tell me that these men were cowards for taking their lives or that the last gentleman shouldnt have had sex with the woman. A consent to sex is not a consent to fatherhood. It is a consent to sex. And for those that would argue that it is a risk that a man knowingly takes, it is also a risk that a woman knowingly takes. But then again one can always go ahead and have an abortion or give the child away right? With this right comes great responsibility. If Tyler Perry would take the time to tell these three mens stories the world would better understand that the current conversation is much more complex than men needing to own the issue of irresponsible fatherhood. Everyone needs to take responsibility for this issue but we HAVE to be WILLING TO HAVE A REAL OPEN DISCUSSION where one belief or experience doesn?t dominate the discussion. Thanks again for this topic. I would love it if all radio/tv personalities across the country would collaborate and dedicate their shows for a day of real discussion about this as this issue has reached a height of urgency that demands our immediate attention. BUT it has to be a fair discussion that brings the best and brightest, and everyday people into the discussion on both sides of the issue. Behind the statistics are real stories.

Will someone PLEASE bring this issue to the forefront. I cant speak for any other community, but while black men in our community are taking the largest of the blame and children are taking an enormous hit as well,sisters (and I hate to say this) in our community are being absolved of the responsibility they have for contributing to this high statistic of fatherlessness and out of wedlock children. WILLING fathers make for good family men!And it will only get higher if the few men that are available in our community are the focus of something that is a fundamental right AND responsibility of the women in our community-pregnancy prevention. Its time for tough decisions. We need a congressional hearing on this issue. We cannot keep hiding behind “the best interest of the child” and ignoring the realities that jailing black men and the many other measure will notbring black men home, it only further perpetuates this crazy cycle that distances men and women in our community. We should consider alternatives to a system that just has NOT worked, perhaps more aggressiveprevention funding geared towards our girlsand boys. 21+ should not warrant government involvement for financially stable women and those that are not, may committ to 5 year counseling and job/trade or academicplacementto become self-sufficient in the absence of a man. In the best interest of children it is better that some men are simply not a part of the picture so as not to sustain a life of inconsistency and confusion. Forced fatherhood is not in the best interest of our children as we cannotlegislate fatherhood for many, to be quite honest, that will simply never be fathers. there are many men that will willingly, however custodial battles that only enforce financial support from those men has and will not work.We need to start over with a phase out of the current system.

Thank you,

Natalie

4 Comments

natalie ramirez

Thursday, December 9, 2010 at 4:37 pm

I have been in the field as an advocate/activist for womens rights for twenty years.. While aggressively pursuing those rights I have often received praise for my efforts from my fellow sisters (many of which are rarely in the trenches with me) but whenever I have spoken to the responsibilities the chorus of amens diminish. Well having been here half a century I have grown tired of the blame game and our tendency to absolve ourselves of responsibility for the mess in our community. So I recently wrote to several black magazines.

Greetings,

We cannot continue to demonize black men as THE problem given that many of them did not have a choice as it relates to becoming a father. Sistas we have aborted and adopted our children away in the name of “my body my choice” but the reality is..It is more “my lifestyle my choice” The same reasons that women choose those options are the reasons that many men walk. Whats not to understand about that? The only difference is we as womencanmake a decision that effects TWO people lives andmany timesthose two people (child and man are at our mercy). We have a greater responsibility to our community to prevent UNWANTED children and UNWILLING fathers.Sure it is a risk, but as women our choices begin with respecting unborn children by not bringing them into the world under these circumstances. Im sure not one sista will make it to the end of my post as many unfortunately refuse to look at this from an angle consistent with the way society has evolved, choosing rather to keep the same mindset that has not worked for us.

A recent topic on a radio station on the East Coast adressed the statistic that 74% of black children are born out of wedlock. While there was diversity of opinion during the discussion, I was surprised that many, women in particular, shared the sentiments I expressed regarding this issue. However, it was refereshing that more African-Americans are beginning to explore the other side of an issue that many believe the state governments have begun to exploit to our community’s detriment. I am a family therapist that has had a number of experiences over the last ten years that have begun to impact my worldview and insight on the issue. What our lawmakers and family courts are doing right now is NOT working for black folks. 72%? Its time for solutions that are not financially driven or meant to destroy peoples lives. Our response to the issue is to destroy those men that forced those women into motherhood?(sarcasm) That is not helping our community or the problem. Abortion and the guarantees of thechild support system (as it relates to many unwed mothers) has contributed to this growing problem. With a generation of entitled young people becoming adults there will be a continued deteriration of family values, particularly in the black community-perhaps as the result of the earlier mentioned guarantees that appear to promote single motherhood. Unfortunately, I am sure that my opinion will be dismissed before anyone actually processes or even finishes the conversation but…

This was my weigh-in on the show that surprisingly was received morewarmly than I thoughtby an audience of 100,000: I think we need to start looking at this problem very different than we have. This significant increase suggest to me that the way that we have been looking at the issue is not working. 74%? There has to be a more diverse and honest discussion no matter how tough that discussion is. We have to deal with reality and stop using yesterdays solution to an embarrasingly growing issue today. There are a number of perspectives that have been dismissed almost as if to suggest that some of the popular notions assertd on the daily are legitimate. 74% children born out of wedlock and we manage to continue reducing the issue to a need for more accountability and punative measuresfor fathers/men. And this “accountability” has led to black men receiving criminal records and other penalties (not for killing dogs, or vehicular homicide or selling drugs but wait for it…child support?), mistakingly making a moral issue a criminal one? And somehow this is the best that we can come up with? I cant believe there isnt more outrage. Criminalizing black fathers is not solving the problem it is creating a greater distance between black men, women and children. Here was my contribution to the discussion:

First I would like to express my gratitude to you all for providing a forum to discuss the issues affecting the black community. My name is Terry and I am a familytherapist in northwest Indiana. I weighed in on your topic regarding the recently released statistic that 74% of black children are born out of wedlock. I struggled to effectively communicate my thoughts on your show because it is a topic I have become very passionate about. I have always advocated fiercely for womens issues, rallying and speaking to a womans right to choice. However, I have also in recent years begun to explore other angles of this debate, particularly as it relates to the impact on the forgotten black male. It comes as no surprise that women are outperforming men at the collegiate level and in their their professional endeavors as well. I believe that women have begun to change their life trajectory for the better as the results of aggressive pushes for equality.And society will be better for it! BUT what has happened and what no one is willing to truly accept responsibility for is our clear neglect of our young men and boys. While we have begun to redefine what it is to be a woman due largely to the evolution of a womens role in society we continue to define manhood in archaic ways that are inconsistent with the evolving male. We cannot keep reducing the discussion to merely an issue of responsible fatherhood and not one of poor decision making by men AND WOMEN in our community. We must more actively promote pregnancy prevention and contraception option to our girls, though abstinence is my personal preference.

Roe v Wade gave women the right to unilaterally make a decision to terminate pregnancy without the input of the expecting father, including men only in the decision as it related to financial obligation. Growing education and access to contraception changed the landscape for women, as choice extended beyond decision about abortion to having a variety of options being provided women to prevent unwanted pregnancy. So.. If a woman got pregnant and believed she was not financially or emotionally prepared for motherhood she could terminate pregnancy even if the father desired the child. Additionally, a woman could drop their children at safe havens (in many states) or put their child up for adoption and never have their lifes course altered. Millions of women (and not just poor uneducated young women) abort or give their children away every year as it is their right to do so. However in this conversation of rights versus responsibilities, when men walk away from thevery SAMEresponsibility that can change his lifes course he is referred to as a deadbeat.The same top three reasons that women abort are the same three reasons that elicit fear and anxiety in men and young boys.We preach accountability/responsibility (and should continue) to our young men but in our efforts to protect our young women we dont effectively communicate the idea that with rights like CHOICE comes great responsibilities. We counsel our pregnant young women about the options they have encouraging them that their options make it possible to continue in their educational or career aspirations. But when It comes to our young men whose college and career aspirations may be effected, they are simply encouraged to “man up”. This growing resentment of many black men towards black women is the result of the interesting dichotomy where there are the womans declarations of independence and autonomy while selectively embracing victimization for things like unwanted pregnancy. In 2010 with the pro-choice mantra being My choice my body it should be interpreted that if a woman CHOOSES not to take responsibility for contraception, CHOOSES to then take the risk of unprotected sex or condom failure she should not be allowed to use terms like man up when in essence it was an act of negligence or in some cases intent on her part as wellthat led to pregnancy. Except in the case of rape, if sex is consensual, why do we still say that he “got her pregnant”? This seems to imply that he forced her to take off her clothes, forced her into the act, forced her not to be on birth control etc.

If there were no guarantees ofchild support and custody, I suspect that less women would be willing to engage in such risky reckless behavior. However this dependencyupon the two continue to destroy our community.When it comes to abortion we consider it merely a fetus, but with the womans decision to go full term with pregnancy and the fathers early communication of no desire to be a part of the process, all of a sudden we are offended that a man would walk away from his unborn CHILD. So for your convenience its not technically KILLING a child but if he walks it is an unforgiveable sin? WE HAVE TO HONESTLY DISCUSS THE HYPROCRISY OF THESE BELIEFS IN OUR COMMUNITY! So what do we do? We criminalize mens desire to not become fathers. This may be an immoral issue but not a crime! So a woman is already not receiving the support she desires but now we have given the black man a felony, he may lose his drivers license and may even lose his professional license to practice his profession (e.g. barbers license) How is this helping the black community? And we hear about it so much that we have allowed ourselves to be indoctrinated with the belief that this practice is not harmful! We cannot continue to reduce such a complex discussion to this problem as merely being a need for black men to start mannin up as many of our leaders seem to buy into. On a side note we cannot allow self-proclaimed “experts” (Black entertainers) to write books and lead the discussion about manhood and relationships and take their word and experiences as law. Sorry about that one.
The prevalence of depression and rate of male suicide has increased at an alarming rate and NO ONE is talking about it. I lost three gentleman on my caseload to suicide after they found themselves marginialized from their childrens lives because mommy desired a sperm donor and a financial sponsor but not a father for her children. We have child support enforcement agencies but we dont have visitation enforcement agencies. So once again we put a lot of emphasis on fatherhood as a financial obligation but not on the active involvement of men in their childrens lives. If the government wont enforce one then they shouldn?t enforce the other.

These three gentlemens stories never get told because EVERYONE is so focused on paying back many men for the sins of their fathers. Not all mens stories are the same just like not all stories of single motherhood are to be automatically held as the result of an ill intended man taking advantage of a woman. One of my clients was falsely accused of DV and sentenced to time in jail until his exes own family recorded her admission that shed fabricated the stories. She should automatically have transferred her custodial rights and been charged herself but this didnt happen. His reputation was damaged badly but he continued to fight a losing fight for custody until he ultimately took his life. Another story from a colleague in the field: the clients children greeted him with open arms upon his release from jail. He was a professional man and hed been accused by hischildrens mother of abusing their children. After ten years and his children now 17 and 18 his children spoke of their mother coaching them through the allegations towards their father. It was later discovered that their stepfather had perpetrated the abuses towards the children upon my clients release. Having lost so much he too chose to end his life after a long bout with depression. My last clients suicide came on the heels of him finding out that hed fathered a child by a woman that admits to having poked holes in his condom to a judge. The judges response was, “while this is unfortunate, in the best interest of the child u must pay 8000 in arrears and 800 dollars a month in child support. Where is the justice in that? His story was never told. And yet Ive had several female colleagues tell me that these men were cowards for taking their lives or that the last gentleman shouldnt have had sex with the woman. A consent to sex is not a consent to fatherhood. It is a consent to sex. And for those that would argue that it is a risk that a man knowingly takes, it is also a risk that a woman knowingly takes. But then again one can always go ahead and have an abortion or give the child away right? With this right comes great responsibility. If Tyler Perry would take the time to tell these three mens stories the world would better understand that the current conversation is much more complex than men needing to own the issue of irresponsible fatherhood. Everyone needs to take responsibility for this issue but we HAVE to be WILLING TO HAVE A REAL OPEN DISCUSSION where one belief or experience doesn?t dominate the discussion. Thanks again for this topic. I would love it if all radio/tv personalities across the country would collaborate and dedicate their shows for a day of real discussion about this as this issue has reached a height of urgency that demands our immediate attention. BUT it has to be a fair discussion that brings the best and brightest, and everyday people into the discussion on both sides of the issue. Behind the statistics are real stories.

Will someone PLEASE bring this issue to the forefront. I cant speak for any other community, but while black men in our community are taking the largest of the blame and children are taking an enormous hit as well,sisters (and I hate to say this) in our community are being absolved of the responsibility they have for contributing to this high statistic of fatherlessness and out of wedlock children. WILLING fathers make for good family men!And it will only get higher if the few men that are available in our community are the focus of something that is a fundamental right AND responsibility of the women in our community-pregnancy prevention. Its time for tough decisions. We need a congressional hearing on this issue. We cannot keep hiding behind “the best interest of the child” and ignoring the realities that jailing black men and the many other measure will notbring black men home, it only further perpetuates this crazy cycle that distances men and women in our community. We should consider alternatives to a system that just has NOT worked, perhaps more aggressiveprevention funding geared towards our girlsand boys. 21+ should not warrant government involvement for financially stable women and those that are not, may committ to 5 year counseling and job/trade or academicplacementto become self-sufficient in the absence of a man. In the best interest of children it is better that some men are simply not a part of the picture so as not to sustain a life of inconsistency and confusion. Forced fatherhood is not in the best interest of our children as we cannotlegislate fatherhood for many, to be quite honest, that will simply never be fathers. there are many men that will willingly, however custodial battles that only enforce financial support from those men has and will not work.We need to start over with a phase out of the current system.

Thank you,

Natalie
Danica Arevalos

Friday, February 18, 2011 at 2:33 am

I think every man who having problem with their manhood should read this great post. Will spread your post to my website readers too. thanks
michelle

Saturday, March 12, 2011 at 8:07 pm

I have a facebook page with over 3,000 fans I write poetry and stories for and about families with loved ones in prison. Mu work is aazing please feel free to read my short poem. I would love the oppurtunity to write for your magazine.

http://www.facebook.com/someoneIknowandloveisdoingtime/posts/188327484536413?ref=notif&notif_t=feed_comment#!/someoneIknowandloveisdoingtime

http://prison.livesinfocus.org/2011/03/08/poem-choices/

Through the years
I’ve seen it all
I’ve seen his rise
And I’ve seen his fall

Jack of all trades, master of the moment

Money was good he was on top of the game

he had that ghetto fame

then one day it was all gone the houses, the money, the cars

just like that he was taken away , gone very far.

now its no longer a game.

He must deal with the consequences of those choices he made

and hope and pray he will be home one day.

The choices you make define the course of your life,

Life is like a boomerang, everything you do will come back to you
As we all walk through life we make choices that affect lives of someone you know or love

The circumstances you are finding yourself in are perfect for the choices you have made…

Black Male Multiple Choice: Unemployed, High School Dropout Or Incarcerated- a blog by Russell Simmons

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